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Taking
Government Money for Grad School?
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The following
is a dialogue between Chris Arakaky and Walter Block.
I. Arakaky
to Block
From: Chris
Arakaky
Date: May 13, 2008 10:14:16 PM CDT
To: block@loyno.edu
Subject: I need your help!
Hi, it's me,
Chris again. I need your advice on something. You see, I am supposed
to be going to XYZ University in the fall. The problem I am having
is that my dad applied for financial aid and I really do not want
to take welfare from the government. At first I thought that I would
have to pay it all back anyway so I didn't feel too guilty about
this but then I learned that I only need to repay $3,500 of the
$16,000 that I would be getting. That is just ridiculous. That basically
is a free ride from the government, and obviously I don't believe
in it. I tried to explain it to my dad but he just doesn't understand.
He says I won't be saying it's a free ride when I owe $15,000. Then
I told him that wasn't the point, why should others pay for my own
college education? He said that when you pay taxes you don't only
pay them for yourself but for others as well. When I said that goes
against what I believe in he just laughed and said I've been listening
to too much Ron Paul. I told him that Paul didn't allow his sons
to get federal financial aid and he responded by saying it is more
expensive now than it was before. After I told him that part of
the reason it is so expensive is because universities can rely on
the government to pay for people when they themselves can't afford
it (I heard that argument from Thomas Sowell), he completely ignored
the point that I was trying to make and went off about scholarships
or something. This feels so hopeless. I feel like just telling him
that I refuse to go if I have to receive financial aid. But I just
can't do that because number one he already paid the housing and
tuition deposit, and my grandma is expecting too much from me. My
grandparents have been saving up a lot of money for me to go to
college since I was born and they always stressed how important
an education is. I know she would be devastated if I told her I
wasn't going and I just couldn't do that to her. However, I think
she might be more sympathetic to what I am saying. She is a very
strong anti-tax Republican and the IRS has always been harassing
her ever since she came to this country. My grandparents came from
Bolivia and earned a lot of money starting their own medical clinic,
so naturally the IRS always wanted a big share. Even though she
is now retired and my grandpa is dead they still demand more money.
So I'm going to talk with her about taking out a student loan and
seeing if she can help me pay it. But what do you think I should
do? I feel like I am in a hopeless situation. I see no way out of
this. Should I take the money because if it wasn't for the IRS then
my grandma would have a lot more money to pay for me to go to college?
Should I absolutely refuse to take financial aid and not go to college
if I can't afford to otherwise? How do I get my dad to understand
me? This is eating at my conscience and I feel like such a hypocrite
voting for somebody who would get rid of the Dept. of Education
yet taking money from that same department. Even my mom felt happy
that I was getting a free ride and that made me feel even worse.
Please tell me what you think I should do.
On another
note, I recently ordered Road
to Serfdom from the Mises Store and I can't wait until it
comes!!
II. Block
to Arakaky
Walter Block
wrote:
Dear Chris:
I greatly admire
your attempt to stick to principle.
I hate to be
too blunt with you, but I think that you (and Ron too, if what you
say about him is true) entirely misconstrue libertarianism. Remember,
in this philosophy, government is BAD, the people are GOOD. You're
one of the PEOPLE. It is BAD if the government has any given dollar.
It is GOOD if these thieves are relieved of their ill-gotten gains.
Did you not ever read Atlas
Shrugged, that part about Ragnar Danneskjold?
If your views
were correct (according to libertarianism, you can't take stuff
from the state), then you should not use "their" roads, sidewalks,
currency, post office, libraries either. Are you really that much
of a hermit? I doubt it. Thus, you are, happily acting inconsistently
with your own (very mistaken) views. I urge you to continue on down
this path regarding grad school. Can you tell me a relevant difference
between availing yourself of these government services (sidewalks,
currency, post office, libraries) and taking money from the state?
In any case,
I have written LOTS about this. Please peruse my publications on
this. I am willing to try to argue you into your dad's position.
He and I are probably of similar ages (please show this to him,
your mother and grandmother), but that's not why. I suggest you
start with my "Ron Paul and Matching Funds."
Block, Walter.
2002. "Accepting Government Subsidies," Fraser Forum,
February, p. 27.
Block, Walter.
2004. "Radical
Libertarianism: Applying Libertarian Principles to Dealing with
the Unjust Government, Part I" Reason Papers, Vol.
27, Fall, pp. 117–133.
Block, Walter.
2006. "Radical
Libertarianism: Applying Libertarian Principles to Dealing with
the Unjust Government, Part II" Reason Papers, Vol.
28, Spring, pp. 85–109; net taxpayer, ruling class analysis
p. 87.
Block, Walter.
2007. "Ron
Paul and Matching Funds," October 1.
Block, Walter.
Forthcoming A. "Toward a Libertarian Theory of Guilt and Punishment
for the Crime of Statism" Journal of Libertarian Studies.
Block, Walter.
Forthcoming B. "Hoppe, Kinsella and Rothbard II on Immigration:
A Critique." Journal of Libertarian Studies.
As for Road
to Serfdom, here's my critique of it.
Block, Walter.
1996. "Hayek's
Road to Serfdom," Journal of Libertarian Studies: An Interdisciplinary
Review, Vol. 12, No. 2, Fall, pp. 327–350; reprinted in
Ama-gi: Journal of the Hayek Society at the London School of
Economics, Vol. 1, No. 1, pp. 22–25
Best regards,
Walter
III. Arakaky
to Block
From: Chris
Arakaky
Sent: Wed 5/14/2008 4:22 PM
To: Walter Block
Subject: RE: I need your help!
Dear Mr. Block,
Thank you so
much for your email. I am very humbled that a great economist such
as yourself would write to me. I understand the point you are making.
I certainly do use government roads and things like that. However,
my problem isn't going to a public university, its using other people's
money to pay for my education. The state has a monopoly on roads
so what choice do I have but to use it? The law says I must go to
high school and since the state also has a monopoly on education
what choice do I have other than using tax dollars? I would like
to see XYZ University privatized, but if it isn't then I still do
not feel bad about going there because it is beyond my control.
But using tax dollars to pay my way there is not beyond my control.
Isn't the state acting on my behalf if it provides me with money
that was forcefully taken from others? Am I not a beneficiary of
the state? This is the way I honestly feel. I believe the Department
of Education should be abolished. If it was, then maybe I wouldn't
be able to attend college since there would be no more financial
aid. See the contradiction?
I remember
reading that Ron Paul didn't allow his kids to take federal financial
aid. If I find where I read it, then I will send you the link. Anyway,
thank you for responding, I really appreciate it.
With best regards,
Chris
P.S. After
reading your review of Road To Serfdom, it seems like Hayek
was more of an economic interventionist than I thought. I certainly
don't agree with mandating work hours. I guess he was closer to
Milton Friedman than to Mises or Rothbard.
IV. Block
to Arakaky
Walter Block
wrote:
Dear Chris:
Wow, that was
a quick read of me on Hayek. I entirely agree with your assessment.
But we disagree,
strongly, on the other matter.
Using public
roads IS using "other people's money." Where do you think the government
got the money to build the roads. Not from "other people"?
You do indeed
have a choice as to whether or not to use the roads (currency, libraries,
etc.). You could become a hermit; you could commit suicide. Ditto
for high school. You could have gone to a private one.
Would you accept
social security funds? How about tax refunds, when you pay more
taxes than the government thinks you owe it? If so, why the difference?
You might say, well, I'm just getting my own money back in these
cases. But the same thing applies to XYZ University. Only here,
you wouldn't be getting your OWN money back; rather, that of your
parents, grandparents, who have been taxed lo these many years.
I think that
Ron Paul is a great guy. However, if he didn't allow his kids to
take federal aid, it need not be because this was incompatible with
libertarianism. It could have been for pragmatic grounds. Did you
read my piece on him accepting government funds? Please give me
your criticism of it.
Best regards,
Walter
V. Arakaky
to Block
From: Chris
Arakaky
Sent: Wed 5/14/2008 10:26 PM
To: Walter Block
Subject: RE: I need your help!
Dear Walter,
I must say
your article on Ron Paul and matching funds is one of the most interesting
and thought-provoking articles that I have read on LRC. I think
you do make some good points about how the government doesn't deserve
to keep the money it takes and since Ron Paul would limit the power
of the state if he got elected then the stolen money at least would
help out the libertarian cause. I am very interested in the Martian
example. Most libertarians would find it offensive for somebody
to take welfare and pay no taxes at all. Replace Martian with illegal
immigrant and you can get the idea. In fact, this would go against
Ron Paul's own reason of why he opposes illegal immigration.
I never claimed
that using the socialized roads wasn't using other people's money.
I know it is but I have to use them to survive, just like you said.
Surely you cannot suggest that I could have gone to a private school
since that decision is up to my parents, not me. I don't need financial
aid to survive or anything like that, which is why I am uneasy about
accepting the aid. Should I go and apply for welfare and not worry
about getting a job as well?
Of course I
would accept Social Security, tax refunds, and things like that.
But at XYZ, I'm not so sure I would be getting my parent's and ancestor's
money back. Their taxes have already been used for things like making
bombs to drop on Iraqis. I would be getting counterfeit money from
the Federal Reserve and borrowed money. You might argue that the
state doesn't deserve this money either, but I would still be ADDING
to the problem. Because of people like me, our government needs
to get more money somehow. I don't know if I could live with myself
if I was part of the reason our federal government was so big.
Another thing
that I noticed in your article is that you say only non-statists
may take the stolen money from the state. But if you accept the
governments money for your own purposes (like I would be doing),
doesn't that make you a statist as well? How can you complain about
welfare and yet take welfare yourself?
I do kind of
understand what you are saying but I still feel very uneasy about
it.
Best regards,
Chris
VI. Block
to Arakaky
Walter Block
wrote:
Dear Chris:
Ragnar broke
into Forth Knox and took state money. He WEAKENED the government
thereby. If I could get the government to give me $1 million in
welfare I wouldn't hesitate. I'd use the money to further weaken
them. Merely taking it from them in this manner would weaken them.
Ditto for you,
albeit on a smaller scale. You'll also be WEAKENING the government
if you go to XYZ, get your Ph.D., and then promote liberty by teaching
and writing about our political economic philosophy.
I see you haven't
yet read my other publications on this subject, where I discuss
the ruling class. You might also want to read my Reason series
on the unjust government (a redundancy).
A statist is
not someone who takes money from the state. (Ragnar is a statist?
Have you read Atlas? If not, go out and get this book immediately.
That's an ORDER.) Rather, a statist is someone who supports the
state. Taking money from the state is GOOD. The less they have the
better. A libertarian is someone who undermines the state. Taking
money from the state can (sometimes) undermine the state. In fact,
I hereby go so far as to characterize YOU as a statist: you have
the ability to diminish the state by taking some of its money, and
you, you statist you, refuse to do so.
I would like
to publish this correspondence on LRC when it is finished, if Lew
is interested in it. Would you object? If you wish, I can delete
your name and make it anonymous.
Best regards,
Walter
VII. Arakaky
to Block
From: Chris
Arakaky
Sent: Wed 5/14/2008 11:34 PM
To: Walter Block
Subject: RE: I need your help!
Mr. Block,
I have not read Atlas yet. I never really got into Ayn Rand since
objectivism didn't really seem like my thing. If you really feel
like it is that important that I read it then I will go out and
buy it. Even if I do take its money, I doubt the state will be weakened
because they can always print more money. Ending the Federal Reserve
and the income tax is probably the only way it will really be weakened.
It’s been very refreshing to get your perspective on this. I wouldn't
really call myself an anarcho-capitalist so I guess I just never
saw it your way. But that is why I love LRC, because it constantly
opens my eyes to new ideas and points of view. I plan to read your
other pubs on this subject when time permits.
As for me being
a statist, I voted for Ron Paul and donated to his campaign. Aren't
you being just a little unfair in calling me a statist? But I do
see the point you are trying to make. I have no objections at all
about this correspondence being published on LewRockwell.com. I
don't even care if you use my name.
I appreciate
you taking the time and talking to me about this. It was really
beginning to get to me. Thanks for everything.
VIII. Block
to Arakaky
Dear Chris:
I am a BIG
fan of Atlas. But I'm critical about a lot of Objectivism.
 Suppose
I took $100 of yours. But, you have a printing press in your basement,
and could print up as much more as you want (well, within some limits).
Would you better off, worse off or the same if I hadn't stolen $100
from you. Obviously, you'd be worse off from my theft. Ditto for
the government.
Yes, other
things equal, statism can be weakened with the demise of the Federal
Reserve and the income tax. But, unless the hearts and minds of
the people are changed, they will soon bring back these institutions,
did they ever disappear in the first place. So, how can the hearts
and minds of the people be changed? By people like you getting their
Ph.D.s, and then writing and teaching and speaking out in behalf of
liberty.
Hey, I was
only KIDDING when I called you a statist. If you're a statist, then
I'm a Marxist feminist. I was trying to pull a reductio on you:
until and unless you are willing to take money from the state, and
thereby diminish its power, to that extent you do indeed retain
a vestige of statism in you.
Best regards,
Walter
IX. Arakaky
to Block
Ha, I know
you were just kidding but it is just in my nature to be contradictory.
In the articles you sent me, you admit that conventional wisdom
would say that libertarians shouldn't take money from the state.
I guess I fell for this conventional wisdom. I think a lot of libertarians
do. So, I will go to XYZ and I will use financial aid. You seem
to want me to get a Ph.D. and teach people about liberty. Since I
have no declared major, this seems like a good option. But it also
seems like a huge responsibility and a very big calling. I have
a lot to learn, but I am willing to learn it.
Best regards,
Chris
 X.
Block to Arakaky
Dear Chris:
Hey, wait a
cotton-picking minute. I just realized that you are a high school
student ("no declared major"), going on to get your BA
at an undergraduate school. I thought you had just graduated from
college, and were now going on to grad school for the Ph.D. This
being the case, please do consider coming to Loyola University New
Orleans. I’d LOVE to have you as a student. Our entire economics
department is filled with Austro-libertarian Professors, and a disproportionate
number of our students hold these views too. At the last Austrian
Scholars Conference, we had about 6 professors and 15 students in
attendance. That is a claim that very few undergraduate colleges
can make. You’d be among friends down here with us.
Best regards,
Professor Walter Block
May
23, 2008
Dr.
Block [send him mail] is a
professor of economics at Loyola University New Orleans, and a senior
fellow of the Ludwig von Mises Institute. He is the author of Defending
the Undefendable.
Walter
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