Flagpole, Part V

Here is Flagpole, Part IV:

Please, no mas on the flagpole. I’m getting tired of this one!


From: Walter Block <[email protected]>

Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2022 8:28 AM

To: ‘Daniel

Subject: RE: The Flagpole

Dear Daniel:

Proportionality is the proper criterion for punishment. But we are not now talking about punishment. We are talking about self-defense, where it does not apply.

Best regards,


From: Daniel

Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2022 1:19 AM

To: Walter Block <[email protected]>

Subject: The Flagpole

Isn’t there a matter of proportionality at issue here?  Given the flagpole holder is trespassing shouldn’t the owner’s response be proportionate to the threat?  It is difficult to see how one holding onto a flagpole for dear life poses any threat to the owner that would warrant their being shot, which may itself kill the flagpole holder or cause him to fall to his death. Practically, if the owner didn’t want to allow the flagpole holder to enter the owner’s window wouldn’t it be reasonable for the owner to call the fire department to rescue the holder with a crane truck?  This rule of reasonableness should apply else one is driven to accept that a property owner could shoot any kid that crossed a corner of his property walking to school. It would be quite a stretch to claim the kid crossing a corner of some guy’s front yard is such a NAP violation that killing kids is an acceptable response.


Dear Chris:

Thanks for sharing these important points with me. However, they are a bit, to my way of thinking, off the main point. Which is, this is an attack on the Rothbardian viewpoint on the importance of the NAP. Does that woman have the right to shoot the flagpole holder for trespass?

Best regards,


From: Chris

Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2022 5:56 PM

To: Walter Block <[email protected]>

Subject: Fw: Flagpole Challenges; Wisdom Applied (Preventatively, at Occurrences, and so Forth)?

*find fight

From: Chris

To: Walter Block <[email protected]>

Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2022, 08:02:14 PM EST

Subject: Fw: Flagpole Challenges; Wisdom Applied (Preventatively, at Occurrences, and so Forth)?

*Imago Dei reference

From: Chris

To: Walter Block <[email protected]>

Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2022, 07:57:11 PM EST

Subject: Flagpole Challenges; Wisdom Applied (Preventatively, at Occurrences, and so Forth)?

Greetings Walter,

I am forwarding some notes in case something useful/profitable- at least in part- may be among thoughts recorded here:

Of course, the matter in reference (and such variables and variations) would/could be bad for business for the apartment complex owner (+ any insurance company/companies which may [be obligated to] cover the fall, the reputation (and further consequences) of the one who prevented safe escape (means of rescue), the community in uproar, etc.)- maybe good for business for media sensationalism.

I suppose if everyone in a community hated the person (or was unknown/”a nobody” to others, an enemy, etc.), this may influence the perceptions of- at least- some (i.e., got what he deserved, even if not related in occurrence to evil doing/heinous activity; “caught up with him”; perceived “karma”/reap the whirlwind/so-called “Kennedy curse”, etc.).

One might expect the owner (or owners) would like to prevent such costly events (financially and otherwise)- as well as most old ladies may not be “froggy”/jumpy for opportunities to shoot men down (e.g., “Cocaine Blues”). Apartment renters/owners may also be (at least generally) inclined toward having secure and danger-preventative balcony guard rails (if balconies are present/used).

There is a [referenced] saying, “The best way to win a fight (generally speaking) is to prevent it from ever taking place.”

And another: “Every bullet  (” ”’; my insert here) you fire will have a lawyer attached to it.”

Various wise means (including precepts, plans, means and modes, etc.) could prevent such escalated occurrences from ever taking place.

If a once in a decade, century, or millennium (for examples) event is wisely planned for preventatively, such events may not occur at all (out of proper minds, hands, and provision), or at least less often. Astute observers (not only actuaries calculating odds with varying parameters) may recognize, without experiences of deaths, that lives were [potentially] saved/protected.

Clear communication could also be a pervading element throughout- situational awareness and chameleon adaption to “rules of the game” as well.

Deuteronomy 22:8 [NKJV]: “When you build a new house, then you shall make a parapet for your roof, that you may not bring guilt of bloodshed on your household if anyone falls from it.”

There is a way of thinking about the “spirit of the law,” when building and finding buyers, so as to prevent (or minimize to virtually zero probability) business fiascos, deaths, etc. in the first place- not that all will recognize or accept such (without leader/community acceptance, underpinnings may not be utilized to a large degree).

I want reference such spirit in reference to “the Rothbardian tradition” in case it may be taken as blasphemous, but I think you may get my point regarding your proposing and evangelism toward libertarianism (“one true faith” reference, whether tongue-in-cheek)- the spirit of the law in reference to intention. Those who don’t understanding the communication of Rothbard may also misinterpret his positions/intentions, to their own degrees of not understanding (i.e., “Read Rothbard”).

I reference/frame under the underpinnings/umbrella of the spirit of the law (new covenant context), as previously referenced in regards to the series on “Caveat Emptor”. I will leave my framework position there for clarification purposes, as you already are aware.

If the apartment complex owner fixes the balconies of the higher floors in such ways as to make the probability of persons falling by accident virtually zero, this may come up as often as zero times to once every ten years, 100 years, (1000 years [?]) etc. within a community (even among high-population cities, yet maybe a bit more frequent in occurrence).

Other means, he/she may still fall (e.g., attempted suicide (another, + here), mafia/gang/hitman/activity, intelligence/state/military/mercenary operation/activity, nagging spouse thrown over, drug use frenzy/stupor, idiotic rail climbing/jumping, building on fire (no ladder/escape [?]), etc.

If the complex owner(s) find(s) that the area has/have many suicide jumpers, nets could be used, or/along with more extensive guard rails, etc.

Ways to reduce suicidal ideations/suicide/suicide attempts may also be considered (why so many in some places [?]; e.g., Apple in China, numbers in lock-down, post-war, hopelessness [mindset], etc.).

Discussions (conventions, golf course dialogue, etc.) could be made with other complex owners, engineers, insurance agents/agencies, actuaries, etc., regarding wise practices (although not all (yet some may be both- and some further targets) may be intending wisdom (the wisest plan)- rather cost efficiency (which does not always mean/surrender to cutting corners), laziness, bad hiring choices/selections, etc. may be considered and implemented.

wise strategies (even long-term success (considered) strategies; not cutting corners to temporarily pull “fast ones”) may/would decrease scenarios down to super rare (to zero occurring) events (parachuting in high wind (hanging from balcony), tornado picked up and through person onto a balcony, launched from parade cannon onto a balcony, sleep walking, extreme phobia inside threats, etc.).

Preparation meets (shut-down prevention) opportunity.

A hotel complex owner may not even risk building high structures individuals could fall from if previous owners lose too much revenue (+ reputation, heartache, etc.) from such events. Who wants to be the/a business owner known for “death apartments” or “death” hotel?

A number of such rare/unplanned occurrences may not have been adequately prepared beforehand via preventive measures.

Some countries (via communism et al.) have killed off those capable of strategic planning to prevent catastrophes/deaths.

The person kicked out in negative degree weather would be expected (as practice) to have self-preserving preventive aids in such an environment where people were known/suspected to not be “good Samaritans, rather ones who may plausibly cause harm/abandonment and/or lead to its end effects.

No provisions for innocent/helpless/(genuinely; non-lazy) mentally and/or physically deficient/lacking (unable to help one’s own self; Father/grandfather drops toddler (rescue/save or kick/cut [hands]/stab/shoot/force off rail, etc.), wittingly or otherwise? Cf. previous email regarding voluntary [free] actions of the virtuous woman (Proverbs 31) as opposed to gov’t force, welfarism, etc.

By this, I mean especially in areas were danger is a plausible scenario. I wouldn’t expect someone’s own grandparents/relatives/genuine friend(s) to (commonly) off ’em in a [winter] storm intentionally/non-accidentally (unless persons were attempting to kill/severely harm a relative/friend or such/do away with, or were acting without discernment (neurotic, etc.[?]) of circumstances).

Who knows [?], maybe at minimum a few earn/reap their own kick out (e.g., committed grievous harm to a property owner/dweller, etc.) before rather than after the storm (even if previously invited).

Mercy vs immediate danger/threat.

Maybe someone who invites a neighbor onto/into his property voluntarily, knowing weather conditions were changing negative, might have different outcome expectations, judicially speak (e.g., setting up someone/plotting for someone’s demise, to be stranded/offed/abandoned in dire circumstances).

But we could hear seemingly infinite variations (e.g., three year old fail from balcony, infant left in the storm, old lady stepped on/cut/shot/forced off fingers of person (adult or child)- or potentially an animal/pet- gripping onto a balcony/flag pole for dear life, The Lion King/Mufasa’s demise (by the hands and plotting of his own brother Scar), etc.). In a society toward concerns for and goodwill toward (especially innocent) others, utilizing fitting discernment and wise measures of prevention, we may expect zero to very few occurrences. Iron sharpening Iron (and learning from unfortunate errors, events, harms, etc.), and wise persons (engineers, business owners, developers, elders, planners, etc.) devising and implementing such measures (including precepts, plans, means and modes, etc.), even in private (non-state apparatus) agreements- an anarchist town/community/island- to make situations better than before/more desirable/more sound/more profitable/more efficient (etc.).

In dangerous areas (areas with plausible/expectant scenarios of such; c.f. The Rifleman, The Wild West/Tombstone (etc.)), potential bearing and actuarially speaking, we may carry big sticks (gun, knives, other armaments, bear spray, all the above or some, +/etc.), as deterrents, for defense (if such defense need be for protection, ward off takeovers, etc.), etc.- otherwise we may carry because we so choose (as free men, preparedness, tools, defense-ready, hunting, all the above, etc.).

I would prefer to live around others with views toward preventing such (Scar vs Mufasa activity; enemies in the gates; danger/dangerous/evil ones abounding) from ever occurring (or giving the opportunity or foothold) while maintaining attitudes toward freedom, anti-tyranny, care for neighbors, rightness, etc.

I think wise persons rightly focused could provide some reasonable (even wise and prudent) solutions and parameters in advance of such occurrences. Men discussing as men and such, what may be wise, profitable, etc.

Or build where people believe in the spirit [of] such as this (at least in spirit, not [necessarily/particularly] in reinstituting means of being sold, but in restitution measures (family-wise, etc.)):

Exo 22:2

“If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed.

Exo 22:3

“If the sun has risen on him, there shall be guilt for his bloodshed. He should make full restitution; if he has nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft.

…and let other places “go to hell”- so to speak- at least until minds, hearts, etc. change and act in good “Samaritan” ways (or at least don’t kill one another so easily)- i.e., why build in Sodom and/or Gomorrah (places where green grass [and businesses] are ruined/turned into salt?). Caveat emptor for one building or buying in such [dangerous] places/communities; otherwise, much work may be futile in chaos until cleared out/ended..

And for the $100: The lady (example in reference) may be like Buffett wanting a million USD (a life’s worth of income for many; potentially some would fall into lifetime servitude) for a fill of water in the desert. If we can reduce scenarios to zero/virtually zero, (applying wise practices) all the better. Such scenarios-types have happened in areas of Africa not too many years back (exploitation traps: promised better lives, given travel, unable to pay at middle of trip [unexpected] location stops, immediate slavery/serfdom), cf. Hillary Clinton et al.

Even if owners (even communities) of such do not [personally] adhere/uphold to underpinnings from the Scriptures, we might find one/some who at least act(s) amicably toward those within the confines of his/their apartment complex- at least to keep those supporting (and potential supporters) his income (+ lifestyle, etc.) to continue to be able to do so.




5:40 am on January 28, 2022

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