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Rocco Buttiglione talks to Daniel Hannan about homosexuality, homophobia and ‘the morbid totalitarianism of the Left’


 
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Issue: 13 November 2004
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Accidental hero

‘What else can they do, the poor people? Since the fall of the Berlin wall, they can’t plausibly attack capitalism any more. So they have fallen back on a different kind of étatisme — one where the state controls our consciences, and leaves no room for personal morality.’

This, for Buttiglione, is the true struggle. The EU he has always known was founded by observant Catholics and reflected a great deal of Vatican social theory. But that Europe is giving ground to what he calls ‘the morbid totalitarianism of the Left’. Hence his call for a reformist movement, a counter-reformation so to speak, that would ‘give Europe its soul again’.

This is all well and good. But is Mr Buttiglione disinterestedly arguing for religious pluralism, or does he secretly regret the legalisation of homosexuality and the withdrawal of the state from the bedroom? Many of his supporters — at least judging by the emails I have received from constituents — are attracted precisely by what they see as his homophobia. Equally, though, there are plenty of people who dislike what one might call the ‘totalitolerance’ of the Left but who want no truck with anti-gay prejudice. People like me, in fact. To put my cards on the table, I supported the equalisation of the age of consent, opposed Section 28 and would like to see the repeal of the remaining legal anomalies that disadvantage homosexuals, notably on inheritance rights. Can we not have a genuinely liberal order which makes room equally for gay people and strict Catholics?

‘When he was alive, I used often to discuss this with Giovanni Testori [a gay Italian playwright]. He knew I supported the Church’s teachings on marriage and sexuality, and he would say to me, “Never forget that you are a sinner, too.” Which was true, of course.’

So, just to get this clear, is homosexuality sinful?

‘The Church teaches that the ideal is for sexual relations to take place within a Christian marriage. Anything that falls short of this ideal is an objectively wrong act; but that does not necessarily make it sinful, unless it is also subjectively wrong. In other words, there must be an element of conscious choice. Objectively wrong acts may not be sinful if, for example, they are committed in a blind passion, or in ignorance, or because of some other circumstance. That is why we should try to judge only the act, not the man — Jesus taught us to hold back from passing judgment on others.’

Moving from the sacred to the profane, then, would he ban the rap singers whose lyrics are said to stoke violence against homosexuals? ‘Any invitation to violence should be prosecuted. We need a society in which we can all respect each other. I use that word precisely. I don’t mean that we all agree with each other — no such society can exist — but that we value one another as human beings and citizens.’

Some of my angrier email correspondents are perhaps by now reconsidering their support for the man. In an attempt to draw him on to more contentious ground, I asked him how he would have voted in the US election. ‘For Bush, I suppose. Like most churchgoers.’

But doesn’t this sit uneasily with his insistence that there is a distinction between public and private spheres? After all, his stated position is surely closer to that of John Kerry, a fellow Catholic who did not want to impose his own ethical code on individual states. Or, to put it the other way round, if it is wrong for Brussels to lay down the law on gay rights, is it not equally wrong for Bush to propose a federal ban on same-sex unions rather than leave the question to individual states?

‘That is a question for an American constitutional lawyer. I draw a distinction between Caesar’s realm and God’s, not between federal and state jurisdictions. But, by the standards on which we are now evidently operating, neither Bush nor Kerry would be acceptable as a European Commissioner.’

Talking of rendering unto Caesar, would he object to Catholic bishops telling people to vote ‘yes’ to the constitution? ‘Even a bishop, even the Pope, is entitled to free speech as a citizen. But of course they should not say these things as doctrine.’

Once the wretched constitution comes into force, we shall all enjoy rather less free speech — even the Pope. The ludicrously named ‘anti-discrimination’ provisions actually lay down a great deal of legal, indeed compulsory, discrimination. L’affaire Buttiglione is a mere canapé: just wait until Euro-judges start to decide, for example, which Eurosceptic opinions qualify as ‘xenophobia’. Indeed, the strongest argument for rejecting Buttiglione is that, despite everything, he still backs the constitution. He, of all people, should know where it will lead.



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